Just received the following email and am left wondering. Perhaps those who read this blog can let me know your thoughts on sermon length? It would be much appreciated. Thanks.
Dear Pastor Michael,
My husband and I are a young couple in our 20's seeking a church to join, get involved in, grow in, and bring others to-a hip seeker-focused church. When we saw your website, we were excited about coming to your church. During the worship singing, I REALLY felt God's presence and even teared up a little-it was so good to feel His presence again and reconnect with Him. When you got up to talk, told a joke, and were very engaging in your preaching style, I was enthused that maybe we had found a church home. After the first 20 min of your preaching, I was trying to retain what you said, and felt the message really spoke to me. After the 2nd 20 min, I was trying to pay attention but couldn't-I felt everything was repetitive and was easily distracted-definitely not feeling God's presence at the church anymore. After the 3rd 20 min, I started getting upset, wanting to leave and feeling trapped and held prisoner by your message. I want to be a part of a seeker-friendly church--I have a lot of unsaved friends and want to bring them to church--how can I bring them to church if I can't even stand to sit through the sermon? Why do preachers feel that the longer they talk the more they are getting through to people? The average human attention span is about 20 min. If you're trying to reach the unsaved, why do you think you can reach them by making them feel imprisoned in church--forced to sit there for an hour and listen to some guy go on and on and on, all the while, the longer the sermon is, the more time they have to daydream and think of excuses as to why they can't come back.
Also, when people come to your church for the first time, ESPECIALLY seekers, do you think they want to be yelled and made to feel guilty about not "serving" or "ministering to others" or "tithing"? Because you went on forever, I left church feeling guilty and upset and remembering hurt other churches have caused me and my husband instead of feeling God's presence and excited about being with people who really want to serve Him.
I'm sorry to have to write this email and sent you a semi-nastygram, I just prayed about it and feel you really needed to know. It seems like your church really wants to follow Christ and bring others to him, and I'm excited to find that in a church and want to be a part of it. Because you do seem to really be a church that seeks after God, I feel it's important to let you know of a trend I've seen in other churches. It seems that whenever sermon time has increased from 30min-40min-50+min, over that time, as the sermons get longer, people in the church get more pious and preachy and focused on "thinking" they're serving and seeking God and seeking to bring others to Him, when in reality, they're seeking and serving something other than God and the church moves toward piousness and away from Godliness. All I'm asking is that you pray about this, the length of your sermons, and take a 2nd look at making sure your church and you are still a church and a man after God's own heart. And, if God still does want you to be a seeker church, then let the sermons be closer to 20-30 min, so I can bring my nonchristian friends and hopefully they'll want to come back.
You are a great, engaging preacher. I could really tell you were enthused about what you were saying and seemed to feel energetic and passionate. The people in our rows who belong to your church were very friendly. Most of all--it's been forever since I actually felt God's presence in a church--how amazing is it that His presence is so strong at this church!
Thank you for hearing me out. My husband and I look forward to continuing to come to this church for a few more Sundays and seeing if it's what God wants for us. We will be keeping you and this church in our prayers.
Sincerely,
XXXX
My response:
Dear XXXX,
Thank you for your email. I would recommend Shoal Creek Community Church to you or the new Restore Church that meets at the Community Center at 10am on Sunday mornings. They advertise themselves as being "Seeker Sensitive". We do not. I'm not sure where you got the idea that we were 'seeker sensitive'.
Desperation Church desires to be a place where intimate worship happens, but also in-depth study of God's Word. I'm sorry that you felt it was repetitive, or boring. This is probably just a good sign that it's not for you. The messages are ALWAYS going to be around 40-55 minutes long. That's the way it's been for fifteen years and multitudes of folks, new believers and old, love this aspect of our particular Church. It may not be the 'popular' thing to do, but again... we seek to be who God has called 'us' to be. We do not have Sunday School, a Sunday evening teaching service, as many churches do, or even a mid-week teaching service. The main service on the weekend is all that there is. We've never felt that 40-55 minutes was too much to devote to teaching and learning from God's Word. It has not failed us so far, and we are happy to recommend other awesome churches that would better be a fit for those who are looking for the 'seeker-sensitive' model, as you apparently are.
The above churches I've mentioned are great and will get you and your friends in and out in an hour. God bless.
Michael Craft
lead pastor of Desperation Church
I've been in and out of many different churches in my time that had sermons from 20 minutes up to... I wanna say 2 hours. For the past couple years I've attended a church with a pastor that has short sermons, maybe 30 minutes. Last week we attended a church where the pastor preached for longer, maybe 45 min or an hour.
ReplyDeleteI will agree with XXXX on one thing, we in America do have a short attention span. Is this a just reason to shorten sermons to meet the demands of an instant gratification culture, I would disagree.
Can we really judge a sermon by its length and not its content? At my 30 min sermon church, we are always left talking about the sermon afterward, as if blanks were left unfilled and questions were left unanswered. But that's a good thing, we always discuss what was talked about and dig into ourselves. At the hour long sermon, the pastor dug deeper, answered more questions and left the sermon with a period on the end... somewhat.
I tend to prefer the longer sermon but they are both appropriate and God speaks through both. Church is meant to mold the believer, this is uncomfortable at times but good for the body to grow. Can you dig it?
-Former DC goer M.Whitfield
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI have been attending since June of 2009 and never really noticed the length. I always feel like God is using you to speak directly to me. I feel like you teach (even the boring stuff) and make it interesting and relevant. I think that whatever God leads you to speak whether it take 30 mins or 30 hours that is what you should do! I appreciate you and your sermons! Dena Wideman
ReplyDeleteI can dig it, and it's good to hear from you Marcus. I pray all is well with you bro. Just the other day I ran across some pics of you and I shredding up at Snow Creek. Those were the days!
ReplyDeleteDena, I so appreciate what you've written. Galations 1:10 says that we are to live our lives in a way that we're seeking God's approval and not man's. When I'm preparing a message THAT is my ultimate goal - not filling time or making a nice little sermonette. I don't want to be boring people, but I do want to be a vessel that God can use in whatever way He wants.
ReplyDeleteAll I can say is that this e-mail has really angered me! First of all who visits a church and then decides to send such any ugly note the pastor, someone they don't even know. Second, we just want you to know that we have loved you and DC since the very second we stepped through the doors. And not once have we wondered how long have you been speaking and when are you going to be through! We appreciate the time you spend on studying and teaching us backround historical info that we wouldn't find in our bible, and we enjoy it! Love Dawn
ReplyDeleteDawn,
ReplyDeleteThank you for this. My wife asked the same question. Maybe Burger King has spoiled us in giving us exactly what we want "our way, right away" for too long? =)
PM--I sure hope you don't allow yourself for one moment to take this "nastygram" personally. It was clearly written from a hurting heart who wanted to place the blame somewhere. It's hard, even for me who is removed from the situation, not to become offended, so instead I'll just turn my focus to YOU. There is no doubt in my mind you are a man after God's heart. If she knew you at all, she would not question this. Your love for God shines through in who you are as a person, in your ministry to the DC family and MY family, and absolutely through each and every sermon. The Salas family loves you and is so thankful to have you as our pastor. Oh yeah...and your sermons are consistently top-notch all the way!
ReplyDeleteWOW. I don't know how you do it - I don't think that I would have been able to respond so calmly! Chris & I (who have been around for a while) love the messages. It really feels to us like we are learning (in a good way) and that God is speaking through you. I really don't think that the length of the sermon has any relation to the quality (good or bad), and I also don't think that God can't use different approaches to reach different people. We love the way that you approach the Bible, no matter what the content is, it always seems relevant. I think you do a great job, and I also think that you are right in the right place with the right message. But yeah, it really doesn't sound like DC is the right fit for her.
ReplyDeleteHey Pastor Michael,
ReplyDeleteI have never been to your church, but admire your ministry from afar. (Iowa) From what I have seen and heard, your church is God-friendly. That makes you seeker friendly, Christian friendly, sinner friendly, etc., just like a major character in the Bible, by the name of Jesus ;)
Three things stand out to me from this email, that I'm sure you picked up on.
1. She mentions the "other churches" she has been to...aka...she's a church hopper. My guess is that she is looking for that perfect church that fits all of her criteria. If she ends up finding that "perfect church" I hope she shares it with the rest of us ;)
2. She speaks of her feeling God's presence during the service. Her feeling of God's presence seems to be dependent on other people and things, besides her and God. Those that need more than the Word of God to feel God's presence, don't truly understand that God's presence is always there in your heart.
3. And lastly, God is NOT confined to speaking to people in 20 minute increments. People restrict themselves to listening for a certain amount of time. When God instructs us to wait on him, do we set the timer? No, you wait and wait and wait. You preach what God wants you to share Michael Craft, regardless of time!
Ben
Jessica, Ginger, and Ben... thanks so much.
ReplyDeleteI thought the topic of the post should have been, "How Long Should a Typical Letter to the Pastor Be?"
ReplyDeleteSeriously, your response was right-on. For some people this just isn't their cup of tea. I've always enjoyed the messages and come prepared to receive it, however long it turns out to be.
Keep doing what you're doing, bro. (Funny how this particular letter relates to the topic we discussed earlier today, isn't it?)
I have to agree with her on the fact that you CAN feel God's presense in our church and it's awesome!
ReplyDeleteAs far as the length... I've been attending for over 4 years now. I think they length is perfect. I've been to a "seeker" church and quite honestly it felt like eating fast food instead of a decent meal! Add that to having other services booked right after and you feel like cattle being driven to get in and out of the building and parking lot quickly.
I LOVE our church and you're doing an awesome job Michael! May God Bless you for your obedience to Him!
Pastor Michael,
ReplyDeleteI have been regularly attending for a little over a year now after a very intentional and pragmatic hunt to find a body to be a part of after moving to KC for a job. I am a mid 20 something, that also wants a place to bring my non-Christ-following friends to, where they can encounter the Lord & His people, and I believe that is at DC.
First, thank you for being so gentle yet firm in how handed this. It speaks to the kind of man you are and the way you submit yourself to the Lord.
Secondly, I do understand XXXX's desire to find a place that fits. However I think it's one thing to ask questions and find out information, it's another to scold, belittle, or not say things covered in genuine love when a place you may want to fit doesn't.
Third, I LOVE the amount of study, seeking, and spontaneity that is in each of your messages, and I have always been challenged by them, however I do have to agree with her slightly in that, usually the last 20 min. are a struggle for me personally to stay 100% engaged. In fact, I went back and looked in my moleskin and my note taking drops off drastically towards the end of each message. I do think it's part of the current culture (not just american, in my opinion). We do operate "in the world" (read: need to be culturally relevant, and understand it) where mail is instant, highways are prevalent, and you can pause your sports game to refill your beverage of choice. But we are not "of the world" (read: we need operate only for the audience of ONE). Now the problem may lie in the in-between, for those who don't know the God yet, 55 min could be challenging.
Anyway that's my 2 cents :) Thank you for being willing to be vulnerable and ask opinions on this. I am grateful for all that you do, pour out, lift up, and give in each sermon, discussion, emial and whatever else fills up your day.
hannah
ps
The church I was raised in my siblings and I called it jokingly (kinda) "The Marathon Church" it was 3 hrs. long start to finish It was so long it literally needed a 15 min half-time. It was my family's home for more than 20 yrs. SO in my book DC is still quick.
PMC- all my classes teach that we have about a 45 min attention span b4 we start losing it. Thanks for preaching the word, keep up the good work!
ReplyDeletePastor,
ReplyDeleteI so need to pray more for you. I am so amazed at how you handle such things as this. Your awesome and your messages are awesome. We live in a world that thinks 60 minutes with Oprah or Dr. Phil 5 nights a week makes sense. We live in a world that starting at 5 years old they practice soccer or other sports multilple times a week and then the whole family spends the weekend traveling to tournaments all across the country (not trowing stones, I did this with my kids).
We want you to tickle our itching ears. I drive by a new age type "church" down near Sheffeild Church that is in an old bank with a drive up window (I am serious). Maybe that's what we need, a drive up window for a "quickie" if we have something more pressing to do? Don't change what your doing, it sure seems to be reaching so many hearts who are ready for a relationship with their Creator! Your messages have been used greatly in my life and I can't wait for the next one.
We love you, Dave Smith
Never read in the Word of God about time limits ... but have read about "false" prophets and wolves in sheep clothing!
ReplyDeleteKeep chasing Jesus Michael no matter the length it takes ...
Andrea
Pastor Michael,
ReplyDeleteI know I'm not a member of the church (yet) but as it is where my husband wants us to go I've attended a few Saturday night sessions with him and I have to say, Your sermons are great, bible based -digging into the Word, and I think if it were anything else different it wouldn't be DC.
Michael, I agree with your response. The "seeker sensitive" church model is not what we have been called to be. I'm not sure it is even God's intent for the church. Scripture emphatically places the responsibility of "soul winning" on us as individuals and as a community, not the church. When people decide to follow Jesus based on a relationship with a God follower and the evidence of a changed life, the decision is much more likely to stick and become long lasting.
ReplyDeleteXXXX, Awesome passion to see your friends come to know Jesus! Keep inviting your friends, show them your love for God, and visit us at DC!
Audience of One
ReplyDeleteMichael,
ReplyDeleteI have attended Churches for a lot of years. DC's are the "fastest" I have ever been apart of. Fast as in the time fly's. I am amazed at how quickly it goes by. I always leave wanting more. More Worship, More Word, More of what you have to say about the Word. I think the people lined up to talk to you after the service are another testimony that your sermons are fine and more than fine. God speaks to our hearts through you. Why would people want to stay and talk to someone who they think talked too much? We see examples of all day and all night sermon's and reading of God's Word in Scripture. At times in my life I have given up two nights for American Idol, taken a young kid to baseball practice 4 times and spent the entire weekend at baseball tournaments. How many people spend 5 nights a week listening to the ramblings of Oprah or Dr.Phil and Jerry Springer. But they think we should have 20 minute quickie sermons? If we really wanted to grow in grace we would have hours of sermons and trash our TV's. But that would make us "radicals" I guess. Keep doing what your doing, as you often say most of us really like you ha ha. Your awesome and I look forward to everything that happens at DC.
Dave Smith
I don't have any more to add than what everyone else has said. Your response was perfect (and not what I *really* wanted you to say...lol). I honestly don't know how long your sermons are because they go by so fast and I'm learning so much that I've never ONCE checked the time. I loved what Ben said and agree with him on all 3 points!
ReplyDeleteWe love you in the Smith household and have grown leaps and bounds under your excessively long sermons ;)
Keep up the good work, Michael.
My family and friends that attend DC cannot get enough of your sermons. I agree with Ashleigh when she says that your sermons seem to fly by. My husband and I leave every week saying we don't think we will be able to wait a whole week to hear and learn more. I have always felt like church is a place where we come to learn what we can do for God NOT what God can do for us. You teach and inspire me every week, I leave wanting to tell everyone about Jesus!
ReplyDeleteI have to echo the comments above. It is completely refreshing to hear a pastor who is A) enthusiastic and passionate about God's word, B) has obviously spent immense amounts of time studying the passages in context, and C) can apply that information in a non-condemning and meaningful way.
ReplyDeleteI have attended several churches in which the sermons were 20 minutes tops, and yet they seemed to take an eternity! Your sermons always go by very quickly because you bring the meat of scripture rather than laying a guilt trip or trying to get me saved over and over and over. You truly "equip the saints for the work of service, building up the body of Christ".
Do not be discouraged by the letter you received. Your preaching, and God working through DC in general, has done more for us than you could ever know.
My first reaction to this girl's email was very defensive, non-christian actually, in a "IS SHE READY FOR A THROWN DOWN" sorta way... SO -- let me turn it around and ask, what does that say about me and Kim? WE LOVE YOUR SERMONS, in fact, WE LISTEN TO THEM OVER AND OVER AND OVER.... some we've practically memorized, which has come in handy MANY times in my walk...
ReplyDeleteI also wonder if its factual that God's children have "average human attention" spans... I don't believe so. When the Holy Spirit smacks you right between the eyes (which happens to me EVERY time I'm at DC) you could listen for hours - "piggin' out" on Jesus. "Being fed" might be a tidier phrase.
PLEASE DON'T CHANGE ONE SINGLE THING!? Course, unless God tells you to...
Pastor Michael,
ReplyDeleteMy sister was reading this aloud last night and I just happened to hear parts of it and immeadiately had to stop to figure out what was going on. I came into work this morning and made it my first task to do for the day. I had to read again what XXXX had written and although I do agree with her in a sense about a persons attention span only being so long....I would never even question that this would be the situation anyone would relate that to! I shared with you about 2 years ago how much you had impacted my life! I grew up raised in a Christian home and spent nine years of my life attending Church Camp. These were defintely the best years of my life! The feeling of knowing that everyone is on a high for Jesus is one of the most precious feelings! I had not felt that feeling for quite sometime and actually slowly faded from what was so important to me in the past! I went on to have a child that is now 6, and as a parent, it is my responsibility to teach her the reason that we are all here and the almighty Lord that has given us all so much! Since attending this Church, I have such a craving for that life style again! I have NEVER EVER felt that your sermons were too long and NEVER EVER been bored with anything in your message! You and this Church have inspired me to become a follower again and hopeful that I can also bring some of my friends to the Lord by them visiting your church. Since our family has started attending this Church, we have opened our hearts to several aqquaintences, and just like us they have attended once and are hooked! The one thing I REALLY disagreed with XXXX about is, the part of walking away feeling guilty as if they were judged! I would actually say that I feel the complete opposite! Infact, several friends that have attended with me have said the same thing. DC is not a judgemental Church and we all understand that as hard as we strive to be like Jesus, we are going to have our downfalls, that does not mean that we do not love the Lord and will continue following his ways! Thank you so much Pastor Michael! I truly truly feel that in a sense this Church has saved me! I have struggled with being a single Mom that was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis about 4 years ago, and at one point, I remember feeling like there was no hope! Thank you so much for all that you do! I can say that you have truly been a blessing to our entire family!
DC Attendee
Stacie Bayer
Michael,
ReplyDeleteThe way you handled this, and pointed XXXX in another direction towards something that will suit XXXX's is perfect. Well done. You can't please everyone. Since when does God put time limits on how long He stays in a church gathering? Certainly He didn't leave during the second 20 minute interval...anyway.
I love what DC does. I became a member of DC due in large part to how you let God speak through you, whether that be 40 minutes or over an hour. Your "repetitiveness," as XXXX says, works for me, I guess. Now that I work weekends, I find myself saying something I never thought I would say: "I miss going to church."
You can please them all, and as we have talked about in the past -- different strokes for different folks. Keep doing what your doing, because DC is doing a great job and am proud to tell all my "seeking" friends to check it out.
Much love.
Hi Pastor Michael,
ReplyDeleteWhile reading the email that was sent to you, it brought back personal experiences during some of your sermons. I can't say the length was something I had problems with, but the message was definately stirring some madness in 'me' and I started to let 'my' thoughts drown the message that 'I' didn't want to hear. I've realized that 'my' flesh did not want to hear the message... as it would require 'me' to change.
I now know that if a message is stirring something in me, then I need to listen more closely, as it's convicting me to consider a change. With every change, as slow as it may feel at times, I get closer to understanding what He wants from me and has to offer me.
I look forward to more of your messages that I feel God speaking deep into my heart and ignoring what my flesh may want to hear. Thank you so much for speaking the Truth, even when it hurts!
I do not want to be a part of a seeker friendly church at all. I love a good sermon to go on for 1.5-2hrs. If it is good and the Lords in it. I don't think Pastor Michael even gets the intro done in 20 minutes. I have heard other people call Desperation a seeker sensitive church though.
ReplyDeleteTy